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The Why Marketing Sucks Podcast

Most marketing advice sounds great, at least until you actually try to use it.

In the Why Marketing Sucks podcast, SEOptimize founder and CEO Nathan Smith sits down with founders, business owners, and operators to discuss what truly drives growth. Expect bold moves, costly f*ckups, hard-earned wins, and honest conversations about building a business without the polished corporate crap.

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01 — Opening Episode

Cold Email Strategies Aren't Dead, Yours Just Sucks

Episode #1

The Best Cold Email System for Agencies in 2026 With Jordan Lally

Jordan Lally went from two clients to 20 in just three months by replacing tired cold outreach strategies with a podcast-powered acquisition system.

In this episode, Jordan joins Nathan to break down the entire playbook, including the lead magnets that failed, the hiring decisions that backfired, and the AI systems that helped him scale. No rehearsed answers or fake success stories; just the strategies, mistakes, and messy behind-the-scenes reality that made it work.

Listen Now to Learn What You’re Doing Wrong

02- The Podcast

Real Founders. Hard Lessons. No Bullsh*t.

When agency owners rely solely on referrals, growth eventually hits a wall. Former agency founder David Riggs pivoted to buying and consulting for small businesses across Colorado after realizing how many operators overlook basic customer-led growth. In this episode, David Riggs, founder of Pneuma LLC, breaks down how to identify what actually makes a business unique, eliminate fluff in marketing, and build sustainable retention. In this episode: - Why David moved off running a traditional agency to buy small businesses - How physical and digital businesses create immediate wow moments for customers - What every founder gets wrong about marketing and client retention - The exact reason most agencies stay trapped as vendors instead of strategic partners - How to simplify marketing scorecards without getting bogged down in attribution tracking - The step-by-step process David would use to restart and grow a business today About David Riggs: David Riggs is an investor, consultant, and former agency founder who serves as the founder of Pneuma LLC. Pneuma LLC works with small businesses, focusing on small business acquisitions, consultative growth, and capital work across the Front Range region of Colorado. Their portfolio serves local companies ranging from physical brick-and-mortar spaces like coffee shops and gyms to digital professional services firms. David started his career in corporate finance before founding and successfully exiting his previous agency, Numa. Website: https://www.pneumallc.com/ Subscribe to the channel for weekly conversations with top agency leaders and founders. Topics covered: small business acquisitions, agency growth strategies, client retention strategies, marketing attribution simplicity, customer experience design, local business consulting, B2B sales tactics, founder operations Chapters: 0:00 Introduction and David Riggs background 1:44 Choosing small business acquisitions over niche strategy 5:42 Creating immediate customer wow moments in physical spaces 12:13 Moving from corporate finance to founding an agency 17:57 The Pareto principle and patience in business execution 24:31 Why overcommunication keeps clients longer than pure ROAS 31:15 Fixing the identity crisis in modern marketing tactics 35:43 Removing attribution noise and tracking simple blended metrics 41:50 How David would restart from scratch using customer feedback 47:32 Closing the gap between leadership and employees
How To Scale A B2B Agency For An Exit | David Riggs
Integrating AI into administrative workflows can actually lower raw service revenue when one virtual assistant does the work of three. Batu Cet, Partner at Industry Rockstar Services, explains how adopting AI tools and offering flexible outsourcing models allows businesses to delegate monotonous tasks effectively. Industry Rockstar Services provides customized inbound calling, outbound calling, virtual assistant services, and AI automation for business owners, consultants, and agencies worldwide. In this episode: - How one virtual assistant can handle the workload of three by using generative AI tools like ChatGPT and Gemini - Why accepting short-term revenue loss from AI efficiency opens up new high-demand service offerings - The exact reason robocalls fail for sales outreach and why human phone calls remain essential - How to turn satisfied client relationships into revenue-generating affiliate partnerships - How to fully outsource social media account management to a trained virtual assistant - Why founders struggle to delegate operational grunt work and how to break the one-man army mindset About Batu Cet: Batu Cet is a Partner at Industry Rockstar Services, where he has spent 15 years building flexible administrative and outreach support teams. Industry Rockstar Services delivers custom virtual assistant staffing, inbound reception handling, cold outreach, and AI robocalling setups. The company works with business owners, real estate professionals, public speakers, and marketing agencies across Canada, the US, and global markets. Batu started in outreach calling at age 16 and eventually partnered with client Kane Minkis to build a comprehensive service firm. Website: https://industryrockstaroutreach.com/ Topics covered: virtual assistant management, AI administrative automation, outbound cold calling, B2B affiliate partnerships, AI robocalls, delegation for founders, marketing agency backend support, customer service staffing Chapters: 0:00 How Batu Cet built a 15-year virtual assistant firm 1:49 Offering flexible backend and administrative support across industries 3:40 Custom inbound phone handling and virtual receptionist services 5:12 Winning clients through affiliate programs and podcast outreach 7:36 Supporting marketing agencies with human phone outreach and admin 8:42 Using ChatGPT and Gemini to speed up VA workflows 10:12 Adapting to AI efficiency when it reduces traditional VA revenue 14:14 Running social media channels hands-off with virtual assistants 17:03 Why human connection remains critical alongside AI tools 21:42 Overcoming the founder mindset to delegate operational tasks 23:06 Managing active agent teams and sourcing qualified talent fast
How To Automate B2B Administrative Tasks With AI | Batu Cet
From building websites in a public library at 13 to selling a business for $70 million, Josh Snow, founder of SNOW Teeth Whitening, shares his 20-year journey scaling B2B agencies and direct-to-consumer brands. In this episode, Josh breaks down how he built SNOW into a multi-million dollar business, spent $100 million on Meta ads, and why everyday creator marketing is outperforming traditional celebrity deals. In this episode: - How writing web design blogs at the Phoenix Public Library led to his first $500 website sale and an agency model run on Skype - Selling a Medicare lead generation business for $70 million in 2022 to fund growth for SNOW - Why listening to bad customer reviews allowed SNOW to expand its product line from whitening kits to toothpaste powders and water flossers - The delegation mindset shift solo founders must make to hire their first virtual assistant and avoid CEO burnout - Why spending $500k on 70,000 everyday micro-creators drives higher ROI than a single celebrity endorsement - How brands are using AI agents, Grok bots, and AIGEO positioning to capture search intent About Josh Snow: Josh Snow is a lifelong entrepreneur, founder, and investor based in Phoenix and Nashville who started his first web agency at age 13. He is the founder of SNOW Teeth Whitening, a direct-to-consumer oral cosmetics brand serving millions of customers globally with proprietary whitening formulas, powders, and oral care products. In addition to bootstrapping SNOW, he previously built an internal Medicare insurance lead platform that generated 1.5 million calls annually and sold for $70 million in 2022. He currently serves as host of the TV show Going Public and is building creator marketing infrastructure to connect brands with performance-driven creators. Website: https://www.mentorpass.co/joshsnow Subscribe to the podcast and watch full video episodes every week! Topics covered: e-commerce growth strategies, creator marketing, Meta ad scaling, bootstrapping DTC brands, solo founder delegation, virtual assistant hiring, AI search optimization, product catalog expansion Chapters: 0:00 Welcome to the podcast with Josh Snow 0:34 Building high school web blogs at the library 12:17 Transitioning into Google ads and early agency hiring 18:14 Scaling SNOW and delegating roles to a team 28:40 Overcoming the fear of delegation and hiring a VA 50:21 Product catalog expansion and listening to customer feedback 55:34 Why everyday creator marketing beats celebrity deals 58:08 Marketing channels that no longer work for scaling
Scaling E-Commerce Beyond Meta Ads | Josh Snow
Nick Gedda, the Lifecycle Marketing Manager at Intermountain Home Services, reveals why relying on data tools instead of direct customer conversations is stalling growth for local service brands. Intermountain Home Services operates a shared services platform supporting 7 home services brands, managing everything from website strategy to reputation management. In this episode, Nick breaks down how simplification and direct customer feedback beat overcomplicated technology. In this episode: - Why Nick believes the best marketing strategies are simple and unscalable - How simplifying annual membership offerings increased total membership sales by 200 percent - Why tracking non-linear buyer journeys fails when businesses stop speaking to customers - The balance between managing an in-house marketing team and leveraging specialized external agencies - Why speed to lead is critical when converting home service inquiries into revenue - How seasonality impacts marketing channels across local heating and cooling brands About Nick Gedda: Nick Gedda is the Lifecycle Marketing Manager at Intermountain Home Services. Intermountain Home Services is a private equity-backed platform that operates a portfolio of 7 home service brands. In his role within the shared services team, Nick manages customer communications, retention, SEO, website strategy, and online reputation management. He focuses on streamlining the sales experience to make customer transactions frictionless, increase retention, and grow overall lifetime value. Website: https://intermountainhs.com/ Topics covered: lifecycle marketing, home services marketing, customer lifetime value, lead response time, in house vs agency, local search engine optimization, customer retention strategies Chapters: 0:00 Nick Gedda's role managing lifecycle marketing across seven brands 2:12 Growing customer lifetime value through homeowner education 3:43 Managing multichannel marketing strategy and seasonal lead changes 8:19 Simplifying membership pricing to secure recurring maintenance appointments 22:37 Stop relying on software and talk directly to customers 39:47 Transitioning from agency reliance to building internal marketing teams 1:02:35 Why marketing sucks when strategy is overcomplicated
How To Increase Home Service Lifetime Value | Nick (Nicholas) Gedda
*Most cold email gets deleted before it is read.* Jordan Lally went from 2 clients to 20 in 3 months by changing what the email asks for. He is the founder of High Ticket AI Systems, an acquisition-first B2B podcast agency that invites a client's ideal buyers onto that client's own podcast, books the recordings onto their calendar, and edits and publishes every episode for them. In this conversation with host Nathan Smith he walks through the whole system, including the versions that failed first. *In this episode:* * Why his free audit lead magnet got plenty of yeses and almost no action * The 20 seconds of a YouTube video the entire system was built from * How one client got 39 recorded conversations booked in 30 days against a 30 in 90 guarantee * Why he hired 3 sales reps and let all 3 go inside 22 days * How he picked the niche, and why the offer only works above a certain client value * What he would run tomorrow if cold email stopped working * Why 20,000 Instagram followers made him zero dollars, and what he tracks instead *About Jordan Lally:* Jordan Lally is the founder of High Ticket AI Systems, an acquisition-first B2B podcast agency for marketing agencies, SEO agencies, and fractional executives. The company invites a client's ideal buyers onto the client's own podcast through cold email, books the recordings onto the client's calendar, and edits and publishes every episode. Every engagement is backed by a guarantee of 30 recorded conversations with the client's ideal buyers in 90 days or a full refund. Jordan started in door to door solar sales, ran a paid ads agency, and has been in the agency space for 3 years. He is based in Salt Lake City, Utah. *Website:*https://highticketaisystems.com *About the host and the show:* Why Marketing Sucks is hosted by Nathan Smith of SEOptimize, a United States marketing agency running SEO, paid ads, web design, PR placements, content, and social media for a deliberately small book of clients. Each episode is a conversation with a founder or operator scaling a real company about the marketing that actually produces revenue and the marketing that does not. *Website:*https://seoptimizellc.com Watch the full conversation above, and subscribe so you catch the next one. *Topics covered:*cold email for B2B agencies, podcast lead generation, reverse outbound, lead magnets that fail, AI SDR, hiring and firing sales reps, high ticket offer design, performance guarantees, vanity metrics, marketing and sales alignment
The Best Cold Email System For Agencies In 2026 With Jordan Lally
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03- Nathan Unfiltered

Catch Nathan Unfiltered on Other Podcasts

High Ticket AI Systems Podcast

Answering Client Questions Before They Are Asked